A Conversation With Jane Marie, Host of “The Dream,” Season 3
By: Arielle Nissenblatt
I’m a huge Jane Marie fan. I thoroughly enjoy everything that she puts her voice on. I’m so jazzed that The Dream is back for a new season because seasons one and two are can’t-miss audio.
I got to speak with Jane about the making of the new season and about her style as a creator. I hope this Q&A gives you some insight into her process and inspires you to listen to the show as soon as possible.
About the show:
From Little Everywhere and Pushkin Industries, and hosted by Jane Marie, comes the third season of The Dream. Past seasons of this award-winning investigative podcast looked at pyramid schemes and the world of wellness. This season we're getting to know the gurus and life coaches who claim they know the secret to living our best lives. Is it all in our mindset? Or our privilege? Or are we all under a spell? Find out this September.
On The Dream, Season Three
Arielle Nissenblatt: Congrats on the launch of season 3 of The Dream! Describe the concept of the new season for us.
Jane Marie: It’s ostensibly about life coaches; gurus, masters, experts. Whatever you want to call them. The people that say they know what’s best for us. But really after all of our digging, it turns out to be about the idea of optimization, excellence, perfectionism, wealth, all the stuff that makes us so miserable in America. It’s about why we all think we have to MAXIMIZE everything and meanwhile it’s literally killing us (episode 8 is real “fun”).
AN: Does a potential listener have to be caught up on seasons 1 and 2 in order to enjoy season 3? What context do those earlier seasons add?
JM: No, but I think season 3 will get them curious and they’ll want to go back and listen to those earlier episodes. They’re very much in the same vein as this new season, though a lot more focused on regulation and legal challenges, whereas nothing like that is really going on in life coaching (yet!). I think if people have the time, and I were them, I’d want to go back and start from the beginning, although I’ve heard rumors that *some* people like me less and less as the show progresses, lol. I said “some.”
AN: What pushback have you received from friends or family about this concept? i.e. do you have anyone in your life who is directly being called out by your reporting? If so, how do you handle that?
JM: I think people are surprised by this but my family has known me way longer than the audience has and they are, by now, completely used to my shenanigans and tolerant (if not accepting) of my tendency toward rabble rousing? I mean, if they were to get mad now, like four decades after they made and raised me into the woman I am today, that would be pretty weird of them! Plus they know I love them very much, and without that, I don’t think I could’ve even gone to them for interviews in the first place. As much as I disagree with them about… everything?... we really get a kick out of each other. WEIRDLY, JK, I get wayyyy more pushback from listeners assuming I have a bad relationship with them and that I’m being unfair to them and need to apologize. This is called projection in a parasocial relationship.
AN: In episode 2, you are very open and vulnerable when describing your struggles with mental health. Thank you for that. Can you walk us through your decision to be "sad on the mic?" Did you ever consider leaving the tough part out?
JM: Honestly, I didn’t “decide” to be sad on mic, I was just on a production schedule and had to record no matter what I was feeling and at the time, this is like six months ago now, at the time, I was sad all the time. But I still had to go to work and my job is making documentaries so I don’t feel like I had a choice, really. I get paid to tell true stories and what’s happening in my personal life isn’t happening in a vacuum, just like every other subject on our show. We all have problems! That’s what makes us weird and special but also relatable. And Dann is always very encouraging of me just to be me, which makes me less shy about it. Plus you can’t see me crying, in which case maybe I’d feel differently because gross.
AN: Who needs to hear this season? Describe that person.
JM: People who miss TV! I’m only half-kidding.
AN: Who should NOT listen to this season? Describe that person.
JM: Children who have never heard the word “fuck” and would make it a problem for their parents.
AN: What other podcast(s) does this season of The Dream pair well with?
JM: Mel Robbins. JUST KIDDING! I think a lot of people want to put our show alongside other shows about scamminess or cults or fraud, but really, our show is more similar to storytelling shows and deeply investigated narrative podcasts. What can I say, I’m a trained monkey. If you like This American Life, you will probably like my show.
AN: Will there be more seasons of the show? What concepts do you still want to explore?
JM: Yes. Come hell or high water. I’m really interested in doing more character study-type seasons, because the question I find most interesting in seasons past is “how come that person is like that!?” I want to drill down on what makes people different, what makes some bend the rules while some follow them. Where do the “good guys” and “bad guys” come from, and is one even better than the other? I am very curious about the way we all approach life so differently and I want to learn more about that. And I want to get in more fights on tape. :)
You can find and listen to The Dream wherever you get your podcasts.
