Why are non-spiritual podcasts getting ‘woo-woo’?
The rise of the woo-woo podcast is upon us, it seems…
By: Chelsea Hazzard, host of The Woo Lab
A recent Pew Research Center study revealed that U.S. Christian affiliation (once the dominant religion) is down 75% from a decade ago. What’s replacing it? A growing 20% of the population now describe their religion as “nothing in particular,” distinguishing themselves from others who said they were atheist or agnostic. This statistic leads us to believe that many people believe in “something” but are not religiously affiliated.
So it might be no surprise that spiritually open-minded conversations are popping up in places outside the church. Lately, I’ve even noticed a trend of non-spiritual podcasts dipping their toes into woo-woo territory.
Merriam Webster defines ‘woo-woo’ as “dubiously or outlandishly mystical, supernatural, or unscientific.”
Photo by Brian Ness, courtesy of Colgate University
For example, The Atlantic’s recent article by author Jonathan Haidt probes growing divisions in the U.S. democratic system from a social psychology point of view. But he interestingly constructs the metaphorical foundation of his argument on the biblical story of Babel: an era when so much cohesion and trust existed that an incredible tower was able to be built — a pinnacle of human collaboration. Shortly thereafter, however, God removed the commonality of human language. No longer able to connect via language, people formed factions based on other, more obvious similarities — think race, class and religion today. Mutual distrust among humans flourished, and eventually the tower fell.
Haidt is actually an atheist, so why this metaphor?
He likens the tower to the recent, rapid advancement of the internet and the subsequent worldwide phenomenon of human connectivity. But he warns that left and right-wing extremism and other divisive groupings are artificially emphasized, especially on social media. He observes that the result is making us feel more divided than we actually are.
Furthermore, he perceives that we are afraid to disagree in public for fear of being chastised by our own factions. So, in addition to some major systemic changes, he prescribes key interpersonal solutions. He believes open-mindedness, thoughtfulness, and authentic conversation among humans are necessary to rekindle our connectivity as a species. Essentially, he calls for a return to Babel.
Sound a little woo-woo for a social psychologist?
In a way, it is. The story of Babel effectively adds gravity to his argument by touching a human truth that transcends factions of belief but at the same time appeals to them: the idea that we are all in this thing called life, together.
The very human compulsion to explore a greater sense of meaning, purpose and connectivity seems to be gaining traction in the realm of other non-woo-woo podcasts as well, like Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard, The Rich Roll Podcast and The Chatty Broads.
Dax Shepard, courtesy of the Armchair Expert website
Dax Shepard and Rich Roll cater to men like my very non-woo husband, and they do an especially elegant job of the spiritual dabble. For instance, I recently mentioned to him the concept of “synchronicity” (coincidences that highlight a spiritual message), which I’d been researching for my own podcast exploring intersections of science and the unknown. I was expecting a bit of an eye roll, but instead, he re-educated me that Dax Shepard calls this “ding ding ding.”
Wondering how Dax had managed to make this concept so casually acceptable to my husband, I joined the Armcherries (the Armchair Expert fan community) and then subsequently followed his fandom into The Rich Roll podcast. I discovered that across the many non-woo-woo topics both shows cover, the hosts frequently explore the big question we all have but rarely voice: What is life all about?
And what’s particularly interesting is their approach; there’s a deeply personal yet “take no sides” inclusivity to their discussions (which Jonathan Haidt would celebrate).
Because of this, they achieve something so many spiritual podcasts fail to do: they bring the most human of questions down to earth.
One of my favorite episodes hosted by Dax is Armchaired & Dangerous: Simulation Theory, which explores the notion that we are all part of a simulation run by a future generation. Dax of course exploits in humor of this, but the nature of his open-mindedness is surprising. His humility and willingness to question such ideas in light of his own experiences stands out even more than the theory itself.
At one point he confesses his fear of the “permanence” of eternity, comparing the idea to an addict being told they can never drink again —versus making it a day-by-day choice. (He’s famously open about his history as an addict). Whatever your thoughts on eternity, when cast in this personal light the result is a kind of permission for curiosity — without judgment and regardless of the belief in question.
Ultra endurance athlete Rich Roll is a bit of a hero to men like my husband. Like Dax, he’s open about his personal experiences, including being an addict; but he walks a careful line for his liberal masculine listenership (unlike his VERY woo-woo wife, spiritual podcaster Julie Piatt). For example, his interview with author Steven Pressfield (The War of Art) explores the very human experience of “resistance” towards pursuits like creativity, personal change and evolution. Pressfield sees resistance as an environmental force with which we might each do a kind of energetic battle. Rich’s line of questioning carefully brushes alongside Pressfield’s brand of spirituality without pushing his own belief system. But what the two men seem to really align on is a common interest in universal human truths, whatever the sources.
Bekah Martinez and Jess Ambrose of the Chatty Broads, courtesy of the Chatty Broads YouTube channel
Speaking to a female audience, Bekah Martinez (of Bachelor fame) and her co-host Jess Ambrose, of The Chatty Broads have become increasingly contemplative over the seasons - gravitating from recapping Bachelor episodes toward more personal topics. In episodes 366 and 369, they take turns sharing their differing experiences with past life regression therapy. This was an exploration prompted by Jess (a believer), though Bekah ultimately decides she doesn’t subscribe to the idea. Their conversations provide a healthy little window into the harmony of diverging beliefs.
In episode 386, joined by the hosts of Dudesy (the first podcast run by an AI program), the conversation deepens as the group reckons with the range of beliefs held among them. Chad Kultgen summarizes what seems to be a growing sentiment across all these podcasts:
“We all, I think, are seeking the answer for what the f*** is any of this [...] you think it’s a God who gave his only begotten son to be nailed to a cross? Fine. If that helps you sleep at night, like f******* do it. As long as you’re not like s******* on other people. The golden rule is kind of like really the only thing I think we need whether this is a simulation or not, whatever the f*** it is.”
Maybe that’s why this flirtation with the unknown is becoming so casually commonplace. With the unprecedented advancements in science, technology, and connectivity in the past 20 years, perhaps people are suddenly open to what previously unanswerable questions could soon be answerable — or are at least willing to entertain them.
I find these shows refreshing not because they profess any specific spiritual or scientific curiosity — my own podcast (The Woo Lab) explores the views of expert scientists, psychologists, atheists, agnostics, and the religious alike. I like them because they attempt to break down the very factionalism Haidt sees as problematic. Whether intended or not, non-woo-woo podcasts are reclaiming life’s big questions for what they truly are: something we ALL have in common as human beings.
By continuing to openly and thoughtfully discuss them, maybe we’ll create a new kind of Babel.
Thank you to Chelsea for sharing this guest article with us!
